I'm a man who always pays for a first date and will continue to do so, but I think we should collectively cultivate a new norm that the first IRL interaction from a dating app is NOT a date; it's a pre-date, like texting or a phone call, and if it goes well, a proper date can be scheduled, planned, and paid for by the man.
Meeting someone online is SO radically different from asking out someone you've crossed paths with in real life that it requires a different norm. The entire point of online dating is to have more choices, with the tradeoff being that the likelihood is lower for any one meetup to result in mutual interest. I am genuinely *thrilled* to pay for someone with whom there's a chance of a genuine relationship; I *don't* love paying when it's clear within two minutes of meeting that there's no chemistry.
Online dating is still very new in the scheme of things, so I think it's entirely possible to create a new norm around it.
I hear you and might think that way if I were still single. At the same time, it's pretty hard to change culture on a large scale, which is why I recommend people do a 30 min+ FaceTime date first (replacing the quick coffee meet and greet) so you CAN feel comfortable taking her out to a proper dinner on a Saturday night. If you don't have a good phone date, you don't have to feel obliged to spend a dollar. Objections?
I've done this and it sorts out obvious incompatibilities, but there's still a categorical difference between it and actually occupying the same space with someone. And it's true that changing norms is hard, but it does happen, sometimes faster than we expect.
This ultimately goes to a broader conversation best had over a drink but I think the rise in long-term single-ness across so many swaths of the population is a real social problem and one of its roots is that we've dramatically changed courtship. The cultural narratives around it are different (and often toxic), and we've also made it much more time-consuming and expensive. I can treat hundreds or thousands of dollars on the datinh process as an annoyance; a lot of people just get priced out, and it hurts men and women alike.
I'm a woman who has been happily married for 20 years now, but back when I was single, I fully expected to pay for dates if I was the one initiating the date. There's something so grossly entitled about requesting someone's time while simultanously expecting that person to pay for you should you be granted the favor. In my dating history where I was the asker, half the men let me pay and half did not. In my youth, I always appreciated the surprise of being treated, but that bore minimal impact on how I ultimately felt about the person (although in hindsight, it provided valuable information on who liked me enough to treat me and who didn't). If I were to re-enter the dating scene today, I would still expect to pay if I'm the one asking. However, I would also assume that his interest in me is lukewarm at best if he doesn't at least offer to pay or offer to pay for the next date. Like you said, it's about the display of investment. Great article, Evan!
Love this honest funny overview of the Who Should Pay conundrum! Personally in the early stages of dating I felt much more comfortable with a man paying BUT I would offer to pay for something, eg, if we’re going to the cinema I might pay for the coffee ☕️
I also wouldn’t want to give up a huge chunk of time for a long dinner date. By the time you go for a really lovely meal you should know you actually enjoy spending time with the other person.
I once went for a dinner date with a man I’d only spoken to on the phone, on paper so gorgeous , double barrelled surname, sports car etc , when I arrived he had chocolates and a red rose on the table but honestly it was a bit icky because he literally didn’t know me, so they were for some fantasy version of me.
I think, overall, men chase appreciation and a high value mate, women chase security from a high value mate. When a man pays, he invests. He’s saying - I’m willing to invest time, energy and money getting to know you. He has skin in the game. And that’s reassuring.
Similarly, the women who pay for/invest in your courses/work, they get the most out of it, because their mindset is already primed to maximise and implement the benefits.
Yeah, all screening processes are imperfect, but some are better than others. Texting won't reveal much. But Facetime or Zoom will. Could you have avoided that icky date if you'd connected with him that way? I'm not positive. but I do think it's worth considering... Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
I'm a man who always pays for a first date and will continue to do so, but I think we should collectively cultivate a new norm that the first IRL interaction from a dating app is NOT a date; it's a pre-date, like texting or a phone call, and if it goes well, a proper date can be scheduled, planned, and paid for by the man.
Meeting someone online is SO radically different from asking out someone you've crossed paths with in real life that it requires a different norm. The entire point of online dating is to have more choices, with the tradeoff being that the likelihood is lower for any one meetup to result in mutual interest. I am genuinely *thrilled* to pay for someone with whom there's a chance of a genuine relationship; I *don't* love paying when it's clear within two minutes of meeting that there's no chemistry.
Online dating is still very new in the scheme of things, so I think it's entirely possible to create a new norm around it.
I hear you and might think that way if I were still single. At the same time, it's pretty hard to change culture on a large scale, which is why I recommend people do a 30 min+ FaceTime date first (replacing the quick coffee meet and greet) so you CAN feel comfortable taking her out to a proper dinner on a Saturday night. If you don't have a good phone date, you don't have to feel obliged to spend a dollar. Objections?
I've done this and it sorts out obvious incompatibilities, but there's still a categorical difference between it and actually occupying the same space with someone. And it's true that changing norms is hard, but it does happen, sometimes faster than we expect.
This ultimately goes to a broader conversation best had over a drink but I think the rise in long-term single-ness across so many swaths of the population is a real social problem and one of its roots is that we've dramatically changed courtship. The cultural narratives around it are different (and often toxic), and we've also made it much more time-consuming and expensive. I can treat hundreds or thousands of dollars on the datinh process as an annoyance; a lot of people just get priced out, and it hurts men and women alike.
*Datinh=Dating
I'm a woman who has been happily married for 20 years now, but back when I was single, I fully expected to pay for dates if I was the one initiating the date. There's something so grossly entitled about requesting someone's time while simultanously expecting that person to pay for you should you be granted the favor. In my dating history where I was the asker, half the men let me pay and half did not. In my youth, I always appreciated the surprise of being treated, but that bore minimal impact on how I ultimately felt about the person (although in hindsight, it provided valuable information on who liked me enough to treat me and who didn't). If I were to re-enter the dating scene today, I would still expect to pay if I'm the one asking. However, I would also assume that his interest in me is lukewarm at best if he doesn't at least offer to pay or offer to pay for the next date. Like you said, it's about the display of investment. Great article, Evan!
Love this honest funny overview of the Who Should Pay conundrum! Personally in the early stages of dating I felt much more comfortable with a man paying BUT I would offer to pay for something, eg, if we’re going to the cinema I might pay for the coffee ☕️
I also wouldn’t want to give up a huge chunk of time for a long dinner date. By the time you go for a really lovely meal you should know you actually enjoy spending time with the other person.
I once went for a dinner date with a man I’d only spoken to on the phone, on paper so gorgeous , double barrelled surname, sports car etc , when I arrived he had chocolates and a red rose on the table but honestly it was a bit icky because he literally didn’t know me, so they were for some fantasy version of me.
I think, overall, men chase appreciation and a high value mate, women chase security from a high value mate. When a man pays, he invests. He’s saying - I’m willing to invest time, energy and money getting to know you. He has skin in the game. And that’s reassuring.
Similarly, the women who pay for/invest in your courses/work, they get the most out of it, because their mindset is already primed to maximise and implement the benefits.
Yeah, all screening processes are imperfect, but some are better than others. Texting won't reveal much. But Facetime or Zoom will. Could you have avoided that icky date if you'd connected with him that way? I'm not positive. but I do think it's worth considering... Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
My first date with my now husband was on Zoom! 😍So I definitely agree - a screening process is SO important!